The Keith Andrews Podcast

Elevating Your Real Estate Game with Seller Financing | Christian Osgood E11

• Keith Andrews • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Join us on the Real Estate Junkie Podcast as Keith sits down with Christian Osgood, who has impressively managed to secure over 200 units through savvy investing techniques. In this episode, Christian shares how his innovative approach to seller financing has opened doors to numerous investment opportunities, illustrating the strategy’s benefits for both new and seasoned investors. He also stresses the importance of building lasting relationships in the industry and the transformative impact of mentorship on one’s investment journey. Tune in for actionable advice on using creative financing to expand your real estate portfolio and drive success in your investing career.

Connect with Christian Osgood
Instagram: @christianosgood
Youtube: @multifamilystrategy
Website: https://themultifamilystrategy.com/

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YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@iamkeithandrews

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building we bought had a chicken infestation. It had a homeless camp on the back. It had a bad roof. It had $5,000 of collections on 38 units in Washington State. There's a hold on, hold on, hold on. I said there was chickens. Did you say in a chicken coop or inside the actual apartments? Two units actually had chickens just living in the unit with them and then they'd release them into the courtyard and then they'd make more chickens. There was a there was a chicken problem, which I've never seen before in an apartment building.[music] In today's episode, we've got an exciting guest. If you're an avid listener of Bigger Pockets, his name will certainly ring a bell. Christian Osgood, a powerhouse in the realm of innovative real estate strategies with a portfolio boasting of over 200 units, Christian's journey is nothing short of inspiring. After our insightful conversations with his good friend and business partner, Cody Davis, back in episode five, I've been eagerly anticipating this chat. So without further ado, let's welcome Christian Osgood to the show. Welcome Christian. Dude, good to be here. I also need to take that intro, get the transcription of that and that is that is my new bio, dude. Thank you for a warm intro. I appreciate that. No problem, man. So for those of us out there that don't know who you are, maybe you can give us a quick rundown of what you're doing, how you got into real estate investing full time to give us your backstory. So I actually started the more conventional route. I was under the impression that you needed money to buy real estate as I think most people are. I started my first book was actually Dave Ramsey's and then I had to work backwards to Kia Saki, which is the opposite of most entrepreneurs. So I went to college, did the nine to five. I actually had a failed business launch. I've talked about a few times on my channel, but I started at $0 college degree that was a business operation. So like the most general possible degree ever and had to figure out what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to buy real estate, didn't know how to do it. So an eight year sales career later, bought my personal residence and two duplexes. Cash flow from those two duplexes paid for my mortgage. So my real estate paid for my real estate. And that is what eight years of saving and a high earning sales career got me. Fast forward to 2020. I left my high paying job, had no more income and ran into Cody Davis who you had on this channel. He was at the time 20 years old with 24 units. He was just about to close on his 30th. And I was looking at what I built. I'm like, he has no income and has a much larger portfolio. There must be another way to play this. We ended up partnering on a 38 unit together seller financed. We raised the 300 down. That deal by itself made us in the course of two years, a million dollars each. So the $2 million upside on that deal with the praise value, which was fantastic. And since then we've done, I think 17 or 18 other transactions, most of them seller financed. I've done a few bank acquisitions, but mostly seller financed land contracts and a little bit of conventional finance altogether, 200 plus unit portfolio. I've done hotel conversions. I've done hospitality, I own a resort down in Union, Washington, 25 unit mobile home park and everything else has been value add multifamily. So now you just, you said you got out of the nine to five grind and you live off of your cashflow. Yes, I have adequate rentals for the cashflow that took four years to build and we had good timing. And this was like a full time, full time plus job does years of 100 hour weeks. I run Kensho property management, which is my property management company. We manage about 300 units. I run multi-family strategy, which is our mentorship group, which is just about teaching people creative finance. And just basically it's two rules. How do we buy it? How do we never lose it? That's how we do the underwriting. The answer is how do you buy deals and long-term cash flowing fixed rate debt? That is the core of multifamily strategy. There's a million ways to do it. So we meet every week talking about exactly that. But those are all of my focuses, all of my income streams, the rentals themselves were enough to retire my wife and our goals were two things. Get her out of teaching kindergarten in Washington state. I think if anyone knows our politics here, that makes sense. And we've wanted to move to Texas for a long time, build the house in Texas, which should be completed in about three months. So you're building your dream home then? Yes. And then it's supported by my rental properties. Nice. That's beautiful. So before running into young Cody Davis, had you heard about seller financing or is he the one that really kind of taught you the ropes on it then? Or how did like, tell me about that? No, he was he was doing it. So what he had done made it possible for me when I'm like, okay, someone with less experience, less sales, less money can do this. The fact that he was doing it successfully made me realize it was possible. Seller financing is a pretty basic concept, though. It's, you know, anything you own, you can finance and that's been since things that's been for all time. That's how business transacts. So people do that all the time. You can finance anything. It's just saying, Hey, if I don't have the money right now, let's come up with a payment plan. That's pretty basic. I actually learned seller financing from the same mentor that Cody was working with at the time I joined their brokerage, I was actually working, building a call center, collecting data for small multifamily rentals around the country. Funny enough, Colorado was one of the first markets that we opened for that. But when I was working on that project, this guy could buy anything. But he was a horrible business operator. And so he would buy, he started with condos, stacked up a whole bunch of them, zero down, 2008 hit, lost them all. Then he leveraged, he overpaid for a bunch of office on creative terms where it's like, okay, well, they worked because of the terms. And he did that right before COVID-19. And then office got killed. So he was a master of buying anything. And Cody and I both learned from him on how to buy anything. That is how we got our underwriting criteria of like, we looked at that guy. And I was like, wow, if you could buy anything, but then not lose it, you'd be rich. And he could just do the part where he keeps it. Yes. And so yeah, funny enough, we built our company on how do you buy it, how you never lose it, which is basically saying, how do you buy and then actually hold? I mean, that's, that's all it is. He just didn't know how to hold. But all the creative things and how to think about that and structure that I did learn from that first mentor. I think I learned more from him on how not to do business, but the creative finance thing was definitely inspired by that individual who I won't name because that sounds a little mean if I'm saying he's horrible. Yeah. Well, that's cool. And you said a few things that really hit home with me. The terms that you get will determine if it's a good deal or not. But more importantly, is the management side of it, right? How are you going to keep those rents coming in? And obviously, if you were buying office buildings before COVID hit, yeah, you were in a pretty bad situation. I kind of like experienced that too, by accident. I was focused on buying properties near military bases. 90% of my tenants are military service members or families. And that really protected me when COVID hit because I heard a lot of horror stories from friends that were investing in other parts of the country and their tenants just stopped paying rent because they could. And then they were in a bind. They're like, oh my gosh, how am I going to make this next mortgage? And all of a sudden, real estate was the worst decision they ever made. But I was sitting here going, I'm not having any problems. My tenants are paying the bills. So that's where I focused on. That's how I fell into my niche was I was like, oh wow, this is great. A pandemic happens, a natural disaster happens. And guess who's not getting laid off? The military. So this is like I hit a sweet spot and that's capitalized on it. And 2021 is when I eventually had enough cash flow come in. Of course, the interest rates and being able to refinance an entire portfolio helped doubling my cash flow instantly. That's when I pulled the plug and was like, oh, no more 9 to 5 for me. I'm going all in on this. But that's really cool. One of the things though, that I do want to pick your brain on and yeah, you're right. Seller financing has been around forever. I mean, I have several properties that I purchased using seller financing. But being able to find these properties, the ones that make sense, but also that skin in the game that 99% of the sellers that are willing to finance their property to you, they're going to want skin in the game. They're going to want at least 10% down. I mean, I hear about these people that, and you guys have done it, zero down seller financing. Incredible. I would love to find one of those, right? If the terms made sense, but those are really difficult to find. You still need to put that 10%, 15% down, maybe less money than you would with a bank, but you still got to come up with that money. And you guys have been really successful with raising that down payment. Talk to me about that. How do you do that? Yeah, because you're right. It's not common to get zero down. I've done it one time, got a zero down seller finance deal. And it was on a tiny house that I was adding to my resort project. So it's like it wasn't a significant transaction. It was a little $60,000 cool little tiny house. Zero down is very rare. Almost every deal requires some capital raise. If you don't have the capital, it needs to come from somewhere. So I follow a principle deal, then debt, then equity. We never violate that. The deal will determine what the money looks like. If you limit yourself to the money, you're going to limit the deals. It's harder to find deals, I think, than it is to find money by a lot. So that's the first thing for people who are getting into this is keep the order correct deal first, then find the debt, then find the equity. That's the preferred method to knock this out. Once you have that figured out, you can go about raising capital. So good example, I find a deal, an opportunity that has high cash flow. Now, partners are variable. I don't like variables. So if I can take it out 100% with debt, I get to own 100% of that property. And if I can find a deal that will service that debt, we're golden. On a seller finance deal, let's take your 10% down. And we do a lot that are 10% down. There's no such thing as standard in seller finance, because you get what you negotiate. But I would say we get 10% down more than any other amount. When we do 10% down, if I can raise it as debt in second position, that is going to be my preference. So if I have a deal, for example, the cash flows 20% cash on cash day one, I can borrow hard money at 14% or work, or I can borrow private capital, which is usually my preference closer to 10%, which is just calling someone and I actually have a method for this. I'll share in just a second. But the first thing is figuring out what can you do? So figure out the deal. And the deal includes how much of it is seller financed. Then you go, okay, where's the rest of the money coming from? It's either debt. And if debt doesn't work, say it's a low cash flow deal with a ton of upside, we'll bring in an equity partner, they'll fund the deal with us. And I'll have a fixed buyout in a fixed period of time. So their equity is almost treated more like debt with a delayed payment. That way I can keep cash flow stable, finish the project and out of either a refi or earned income. However, I want to do it, I buy them out at a fixed price for usually a little higher return than if it was debt in the future. Those are the two ways to knock it out. When you actually pitch this, it is the simplest thing in the world. And I think people overcomplicate it. People want to lead with numbers. People are really scared about money or over focus on money. People want to be part of a project. So you pitch it like this. Here's the opportunity, tell them about the deal, where it is, what you're excited about. Tell them what is wrong with the deal. Because what's wrong with the deal that you're going to fix is the upside of the project. You're going to overcome all the objections. And you're going to get a bunch of buy in like we had first building we bought had a chicken infestation, it had a homeless camp on the back, it had a bad roof. It had $5,000 of collections on 38 units in Washington State. There's a hold on, hold on, hold on. I said there was chickens. Did you say in a chicken coop or inside the actual apartments? Two units actually had chickens just living in the unit with them. And then they'd release them into the courtyard and then they'd make more chickens. There was a there was a chicken problem, which I've never seen before in an apartment building. But that was that was what we inherited. We took the collection of that, by the way, from $5,000 to just under $30,000 a month. So fantastic deal. But to raise capital, I had never raised capital before. I only owned four units. Cody owned 30 units at the time, and it was 21. So to get$300,000 raised when you've never raised capital, saying, Hey, this is a project that we've never done. This would more than, this is more than a double of our combined portfolios. We don't have the experience. We don't have the money. We've never done a project this size. And it's a hard project. For us to sell that to people, this was the conversation. We own in Grant County, we already have about this many units in Grant County, and a lot of them were value add. So we understand how to manage the asset class. This has been on market for 13 years, and everyone's turned it down. And here is why. Here's the list of problems. Mom and pop investors cannot buy this. If you're a four plex owner, you don't want this. If you are an already liquid experienced owner, this is too big of a project. Most people are willing to take a lower return and have less headache. We are the only people who make sense to buy this. The collections are too low for it to be bankable. It's listed for $2 million, which is a steal. If you look at it for price per unit, the problem with the deal is there's a ton of stuff to fix. It's a heavy lift. And the only people who could do it are two hungry entrepreneurs at the beginning of their career who can spend the time on it. Then you show them the numbers and go, here's what other things are performing like here. Here's what the rest of our portfolio looks like. Here is our plan to fix it. Would you like to participate? I had never raised capital before. We made four calls, three people each put in $100,000, we closed the deal. And that is how almost every single deal works. One more example, Robin Hood Village Resort, $4.5 million purchase, our first seven figure raise. I figured we'd need three or four people to put together the money. First person we got coffee with seven minutes in, they said, "Hey, I want to do the deal with you. I'm more comfortable if there's less partners. What would it look like if we funded the whole deal?" And our answer was,"Well, it would look like a check for a million dollars." And then they wrote the check. So raising capital. Was that an equity? Was that an equity or like what was their stake? Equity with a fixed buyout. Okay. And that resort had operational things to improve upon. It was reasonably well run, but it wasn't run like a business. It was run by people who lived on site who had no debt. So they didn't need to optimize everything. They ran it well for what they had to run it as a business. There was a lot of upside in that deal. Since we wanted to raise that as an equity structure, because I didn't really want to take on a million dollars of expensive debt, that was the way to bring it in. Bring in a million dollars and a partner, have a fixed buyout. And they gave us an eight year runway on the buyout to buy out that particular partner. So you have a lot of time to get the value up for them to participate. They get tax benefits for being a partner and they have some active roles. They do have some tax benefit, but that's a project that, you know, whether it's six figures, seven figures, the pitch is always the same. Here's the project that gets the buy-in. Here are the problems. We're overcoming objections and creating the story of this is the mission. And then here are the numbers. So now they know here's where my money's going. Here's how it's secured. Here's my projected return. And it's a super simple. I've never prepared slides. I've never done a pitch deck. I meet people for coffee and I go, Hey, based on the goals you communicated to me, this is why I think this deal is a good fit for you. Do you want to participate? And we usually get a yes. I think you're really just driving home what you said earlier. And that is you find the deal that works, you find the good deal. And the money's the easy part, right? I had Henry Washington on my podcast and he, that was like his big thing that he kept saying is like, don't worry about the money. Worry about the deal. You find the deal, everything else will come into place. And that's so true. I think that's the, that is the hardest part is finding a good deal where the numbers actually work. So can you give our audience like some tips on just finding these types of deals? Like where do you look? Yeah, I spend a lot less time than I think most people deal sourcing. We'll put this into two very, very, very simple steps. One, spend the time actually defining your goal. You need to know what the real estate is for before you get started. Otherwise, you end up building a business and you don't know where you're going to end up. So have a defined goal for me. I need enough cashflow to leave my nine to five, retire my wife from her nine to five, buy a house in Texas. That's, that's been the goal. And to be fair, the house I'm building in Texas is a lot of house, but I've kept my expenses very, very low. I live in a tiny house outside of Seattle. I haven't changed my expenses until I hit my goal. So regardless of income, we kept it low because I have a very clear defined goal and that is all that I focus on. So that's step one, step two, find the people in the market you want to invest at who've done the thing that you want to do. There's nothing new in real estate, like anyone who is advertising, like this is the newest thing. They're trying to sell you something. It's a, it's an online guru. There is nothing significantly new in real estate. It is simple, not, not easy, but it's simple. So just find the people who've already done all the work, who've made it in your market and meet with them. This is what my deal finding looks like. I have two brokers who I've built relationships with who look for deals, one in market in the tertiary market that I'm in, and one bigger broker at a larger firm in the Seattle area. So I got my large brokerage with all the data who is a, you know, maybe a better technical broker. And then I have my guy who has all the in-market relationships, broker deal flow done, knocked out, out of the way, everything else make 10 calls a week, up to 10 calls a week. So two calls a day of those, probably four people are actually going to pick up the phone. And of those at least one, usually two are going to meet for coffee. And so every Saturday I make sure I meet with one owner who I've never met with before, or sometimes I'm, you know, circling back now in my career, but throughout the year, you'll meet 52 weeks in a year, you'll meet about 50 people in the market you want to invest, who own real estate, who've already done what you want to do. They have pointed me to all the deals, not always their deal. I never ask them to sell. They'll let me know because I've communicated, here's what I'm trying to do. And I admire the business that you've built. Will you teach me something about how you built your business? People love to talk about themselves. Usually their family isn't interested in hearing about their business. Almost everyone will say yes to this. If you honestly ask, I have two duplexes, you have a 20 plex, I'm trying to scale the 20s. And I just spent all of my money on a duplex. In that talk track, I've communicated my goal. It took me 10 seconds. And it's very clear, I'm not trying to buy their property because I don't, I just told them I don't have any money. I want to learn how you did this. You sit down, you learn, they introduce you to your property managers, your lenders, your brokers, your bankers, your lawyers, and they're going to help you find deals. Rarely do I actually buy a deal from the person I met with. Very often a month later, I get a call from them. Hey, there's a deal that came up. It's too small for me, or it's a little far out of my area. I think you could buy this and I think you can probably structure it low money down. You should give this person a call. And that's how all of my deal flow comes in is either an owner I've met, or it's one of two brokers who I work with. That is it. That works, make the world work. I mean, that's awesome. So you're building these relationships. It doesn't take a lot of time. Yeah. And you get to learn too at the same time. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I started this podcast. Originally, I was like,"What am I going to do with all my time? I'm sitting here, I don't have a nine to five anymore, and my kid's at school, and what am I going to do?" Yeah, I searched for properties and stuff like that. But I said, "You know what? What do I love talking about that my wife just gets sick of hearing about is real estate?" Because I'm literally... We could be talking about anything, and then it's like, I'm talking about real estate. She's like, "Are you serious? You're talking about real estate again?" So I'm like, "You know what? Let me start a podcast." And now I can talk to other people about real estate, learn from them, network with them. And it's already proven actually really fruitful. In fact, one of the first podcast episodes I did, I got a seller financing deal out of it. So it worked out. So it's like, this has been an awesome platform. And then on top of that, I get the listeners sending me messages. And I'm connecting them with people. They're connecting me with people. And it's crazy because I never imagined that my listeners would actually be giving me deals. Like, and they have. It's pretty incredible. Isn't that funny? I never actually thought about that. From my YouTube channel, Multifamily Strategy, I'm turning it into a podcast this week because I actually do interviews. I actually just had Henry Washington on, funny enough. But I literally do a podcast format once a week for a while. I'm like, "Why do we not just have this on podcast?" Of the, I think I've done about $32 million of chance. I think I have about a $32 million portfolio. I'll have to run the exact numbers on that again. Don't quote me, but it's around there.$5.6 million of that has been transactions that came in from either someone who watched the YouTube channel and asked me to partner or the Robin Hood Village Resort, which is $4.5 million of that. That was someone who actually watched Michael Zuber's YouTube channel, a friend of his reached out to me and said, "Hey, this is too active of a project from someone who wants to retire. You should take on the project." So yeah, two seller finance opportunities, over $5 million in real estate came from just spending the time talking to others about real estate. And the rule is people who own real estate know people who own real estate. So just network with those people. You get to take what owners, like some people built this over 50 years. If you can take their knowledge of everything they did and you can condense it. I mean, that's how I built a multi-hundred unit portfolio in, almost all of it was built in the last three years. I didn't do it because I'm super smart because I'm not. I did it because it's simple enough. And I just learned from people who spent 50 years and I met with a hundred of them and just compressed time by collecting their knowledge. I think it's the easiest method to do anything. It's just learn from the people who did it. Because you get a bunch of mistakes. And surround yourself with those people. Like another thing we bringing up Henry Washington, another thing he said on my podcast, which I really liked was he gave the example, "Hey, if your life depended on you getting hit in the stomach, what's the first thing you're going to do? You're going to hit someone in the stomach, right? So they'll hit you in the stomach." And he's like, "You get what you give." And just putting yourself around people that you want to become is a way to do that. You might not be at their level, but if you surround yourself with them, you get yourself plugged in, go to meetups. They're everywhere. Learn from everybody that you can. Before you know it, you'll be doing what they're doing and more. It's just the way the universe works. I think the art is being able to communicate your story in 45 seconds or less. When you're meeting with people, you want it all to be about them, but you need to have some framework. The mission for me is, can I clearly communicate exactly who I am and what I'm trying to do in the first 45 seconds and spend the rest of the conversation just asking questions and learning? Because it's clear what you're trying to accomplish. People will remember what you're trying to accomplish, so they'll help move you forward. You've covered that. And now you don't have to think about yourself again for the rest of the meeting. It's just, I'm just here to learn. I'm just here to get a takeaway. That framework's worked really, really well for me. So I think the real skill for seller financing is probably just basic salesmanship. I think I learned more from Chris Voss and Jordan Belfort's books on sales than I did any real estate book, because it's just how do you talk to other people and get some amount of buy-in without being salesy? And if you have that skill or can develop that skill, all the creative finance stuff starts to come into play. Creative finance takes trust. People trust people who they know and like. I don't think you get those opportunities if you're doing... There's other methods that work that if you're a cold caller and you're doing the... You're dialing, you use the multi-dialer, you're going to call 500 people a day. You might find deals, but they're probably not going to be seller finance because there isn't adequate relationship to get those low down terms. Because why would someone trust a stranger on like, "Oh yeah, I'm sure they're not going to default." That doesn't make sense, right? Yeah. Well, and also you would be trying to sell them on the whole concept of seller financing. And I think what you're running into is you're talking with investors that know all about self-financing and the benefits of seller financing a property to you. It's like, "Hey, I get to let someone else worry about this beast that I'm dealing with." And still keep that monthly cashflow coming in. So it's actually like... That's actually my plan is once I have all my properties paid off and I'm like really, really, really old. Of course, I want to leave everything to my kids, but I'm going to start offering seller financing and just so I could just be total hands off and get that monthly passive income in. It makes a lot of sense. That is my strategy. There's only two exits for me in building the portfolio. Build it up and pay it off and seller finance it when I'm ready to retire. Or if I have kids, pass it off to them. And I've noticed most investors, unfortunately, their kids don't want to do that for whatever reason. They saw all the work. That is a lot of the seller financing that I do is from people who played the game for a long time. They might have four or five kids. None of the kids are interested in the portfolio. And they're like, "Well, I don't want to hand my kids a whole bunch of cash. I do want to hand them an income stream." And I get that conversation a lot where they're like, "Let's just convert these all into long-term notes and this is my estate planning." That is a lot of the turnkey properties happen that way. Seller financing, you either have more often than not a property that's not bankable, that has to be seller financed, that that's going to be your heavy value add. And your turn keys are usually, but not always, going to be with someone who's played the game longer. They're usually a little bit older. Cody's first deal was someone who was in their 30s. Seller finance, they'd paid it off. You can do it with anyone, but more often than not, it's someone in their 50s to 70s who's paid it off. They have a turnkey property and they're willing to seller finance it. Where cash flows, because they're like,"This is how I played the game." That happens to me all the time. I'm like, "How did you get started?" "Oh, someone seller finance me something." I mean, that's so many of these owners got started with creative finance. They get the game. You don't have to do any education. And the cool thing about the investors that are offering it, they oftentimes, they don't want a balloon payment. In fact, I have a couple seller financing, finance properties in my portfolio where they are like, "No, there's a prepayment penalty if you pay it off before 10 years." And I'm still, I have like 5% interest rate. Can't beat that with a bank right now. And so I'm good with that. I'm like, "Okay, I'm good with that." And there is a penalty, like if something really bad happens, it's like not the end of the world. It's like a 5% penalty or something like that on the principle that's remaining. But those are the ones you want. Because you said you have a few right now that you don't like five years. It's just a little too short to figure out what you're going to do. And you don't know what type of environment you're going to be falling into. Is it going to be like it is right now where rates are super high? Or is it going to be where rates are super low where you'll want to get out of it? It will be a perfect time for you to get out of it. So that is something that's cool about working with experienced investors that understand the power of seller financing and the benefit to both of you. So it's a win-win. Absolutely. And I think to me, five years is midterm debt. 10 years is really where you're in a long-term debt product. Well, one thing we know for sure is that in a 10-year period, we will have up and down cycles. Like we will go through multiple market cycles in a 10 year span. Yes. Which means there will be an optimal time in there if you want to refinance or extend or there will be an optimal time in there where you'll have favorable market conditions. 10 years is long enough. A lot of our deals are 10-year notes with an option to extend as long as the notes in good standing for a nominal fee. And it's a comfortable way. So a good deal of my debt is 10 years with an option to extend another five. And majority of the time when I'm talking to people, their plan is to keep extending these five years again and again and again until they die. Like they do not want to restructure the note. All they want is an option to review. And a few of them have some clauses in there that say, hey, there is a, you know, depending on where interest rates are, it will either remain the same or we'll do an analysis and it will be, you know, whatever prime plus whatever. Like sometimes people adjust for interest 10 years in the future because they're like, well, what do we do if interest rates are 20% and I'm lending to you at four in 15 years. I kind of want to be able to review that. But you have little teeny clauses like that in there. The actual goal of the seller and your goal aligns really often on seller financing for like, hey, we, you play the game long enough, you don't need more money. Like we want the income. I don't need a capital event. And that's a lot of people I buy from. Like the last thing I need is a lump sum of money because then I have to go buy something else. I don't want to do that. Yeah. Well, man, you've dropped a lot of good nuggets of knowledge on this podcast so far. And I know you guys have, you have the multifamily strategy. It's a mentorship program, correct? Yeah. Multifamily strategy has been such a fun project for me. Because we started this early, early on. Like we started this sharing our adventure right after we closed our 38plex. We're like, I'm like, wow, we just closed something without money. We should do some more talking about this. We have a course that's little, it's growing all the time, but we have a little over 200 videos and the mentorship meets three times a week. So that is me teaching. I hate the online guru thing where they outsource their teaching. So that is the one thing I commit to it. It is me, every single class teaching, like answering the questions, going over deal deep dives, structured lessons. The whole program is only has one goal. I just want people to be able to buy real estate regardless of their starting point. We have people in that group who have millions of dollars. We have people in that group who have like negative money. The goal is just teach you to close your own deals, actually learn from the mentors who are teaching you. And I'm not going to buy your deals. I'm all it's not, this isn't a lead funnel for me. This is like, I just want people to be able to play the game. We made six figure mistakes in how we structured deal. Even on deals that made a lot of money, there were deal structure things where I'm like, had I known this one thing, I would have made another$300,000 and there were definitely times in my investing career,$300,000 would have been very, very helpful. Yeah. The goal of multifamily strategy is like, move forward with less mistakes than I made. That's, that's what I think mentorship should be. And so that's our program. If someone wants to check it out, the best thing to do is hop on to multifamily strategy on YouTube, where the information is free. The goal is always find an owner who's done the thing you want to do. So if that's something that's of interest to people, watch the YouTube channel for free, learn what you have. And if you want to join that community, because that's exactly what you want to do, then you're more than invited. Nice. And so they could just go, it's just at multifamily strategy. Yep. Just multifamily strategy on YouTube, the website multifamilystrategy.com. They're always more than welcome to do that. I think we have over a thousand, I think we're at about 1,500 videos on that channel. So I mean, you could not feasibly watch all the content. Nice. Dive in, learn some stuff about creative finance. My next video next week, it's going to be 10 different ways to close the deal without money. There's a lot more than that, but there are so many ways to play the game. We talk about all of them, multifamily strategy. Good stuff, man. I really appreciate you taking the time to jump on this podcast with me. Again, like I said before, you've dropped a lot of knowledge. And it's great that you have this platform out there that people can reach out and learn from you. So I encourage everyone that's, whether you're just getting started in real estate, or maybe you have a few properties under your belt and you really want to take it to the next level. Like Christian started, he thought he needed to save a fortune just to get those first couple of properties and quickly found out that, man, if you would have known what you know now back then, we would be saying, yeah, yes, 10,000 units and it'd be a whole other podcast interview. But you're only as good as what you know. And so the way you get to know things is to learn and put yourself in situations where you're around other knowledgeable people. And I think multifamily strategy is a great place to start if you're looking for a little bit of direction in your life. Man, I wish I'd go back in time and start younger, dude. That would be a... I think everyone feels that. I think Cody probably feels that and he bought his first property at 19. I know. I mean, that's just the way it is. But I'm glad that... Because I made a lot of mistakes. When I first got into real estate, I was literally... I first started with tax liens. I thought that was the path. And then I finally bumped into like rental properties. Like, whoa, rental cashflow. And wait a second. There's people that are leaving their nine to five living off the cashflow of the rental properties. Then I learned about the tax advantages and just everything else. And yeah, man. And I'm still learning. Every day I bring a new podcast guest on here and I'm learning from them. I'm learning from you. You can never stop learning. That's for sure. And that's the great thing about real estate. There's just so many paths, so many avenues you can go. And they all work. But it's key that you have some directions, right? Some guidance along the way. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, all right, Christian. I appreciate you. Thank you for being on the show. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This was super fun. And yeah, I'll have to have you on multifamily strategy here in the near future. Definitely. Let's do it.