The Keith Andrews Podcast

Blueprint for Building a Profitable Real Estate Wholesaling Business | Tommy Harr E22

• Keith Andrews • Season 1 • Episode 22

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In this episode of The Real Estate Junkie, Keith sits down with real estate investor Tommy Harr to reveal the blueprint for building a profitable wholesaling business. With over 400 homes wholesaled to date, Tommy has mastered lead generation, sales techniques, and building trust with sellers. Whether you’re new to real estate or looking to expand, Tommy’s insights provide a step-by-step guide to success. Tune in for expert advice on creating long-term wealth through real estate wholesaling!

Connect with Tommy:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tommyharr05
Real Side REI Community: https://realsidecommunity.com/the-community-page

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YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@iamkeithandrews

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So let's say I put that house in contract for a hundred grand and it's worth 300 fixed up. This house is beat up though. It's completely destroyed. It needs a hundred grand of work. I then put in contract for a hundred. I'm then going to take all my pictures and market it to cash buyers in my area for 120. Now I may get 120, I may get 125. I may also get 105. So whatever I can work that property up and get, I then assign that contract. So the purchase then, Instead of my name on it, it then assigns to this end buyer and then I'm just a line item on that settlement statement when it closes. So it'll say assignment fee to Tommy Haar of 5, 10, 25 grand. I walk away at closing with my cash and I never own the house. you Welcome to episode 22 of the real estate junkie podcast if you're looking for a way to generate serious income from real estate Without using your own money this episode is definitely for you today I'm joined by Tommy Haar a true expert in the world of wholesaling with over 400 wholesale and flip deals under his belt Tommy has mastered the art of finding off -market deals and turning them into cold hard cash Tommy Welcome to the show. Yeah, man. I'm super excited to be here excited to get to know you a little bit more and share my story Hopefully it'll help somebody out. So you're in Ohio, right? Yep, Columbus, Ohio born and raised and that's where I operate out as well So everything you're doing is just strictly within the city limits there Yep. Yeah, I mean we probably go out about 45 minutes, but we're not in any of the other big cities Cleveland Dayton since II we don't do it's all right centralized in the center of Ohio Wow. So let's, let's kind of just have a breakdown of who you are, how you fell into real estate. know you were a home inspector originally, right? So maybe you can give us that backstory. Sure. So I graduated college in 2017, took the traditional route that most listeners here are probably listening. They did the same. And, but the only difference is my dad has been a home inspector for 23 years. And, I'm one of five kids, the oldest boy. always told him I was going to be kind of his right -hand man and help him out and, played soccer in college and was always an athlete. And once that dried up and I was like, well, I gotta go figure out what I'm going to do. I'm going to go home and help my old man out. So that's kind of how things progressed and real estate was really, really never in the cards. I honestly didn't really know what my dad did other than growing up. He also had a property preservation business. So for those that are listening and have been around for a little while when 070809 happened when the banks foreclosed on the house, somebody has to trash it out, board it up, change the locks, winterize it. That's what he did as well. So he had the home inspection business. That's what got him to kind of quit his job. And then that business grew as the market was going down. That's when that business grew and was making a bunch of money. So I grew up in that business. Nice. Nice. And then, so how did the transition occur? from you being an inspector to actually starting to wholesale and flip and give us that, that backstory. Sure. So I, right before I graduated college, my uncle called me, he lives in Chicago, my mom's brother. He asked me if I wanted to invest in real estate with him. And I was like, no, I have one, no idea what that is. And two, no, I'm going to go work for my dad. And like, luckily my dad was a home inspector and it's not sexy. It's not like the coolest thing in the world. But what that did is it gave me, the day to day showing what is possible within real estate, right? So we did what's called draw inspections for investors. So when you get a hard money loan or FHA 203K loan, somebody has to come out and make sure the work is done to give you the money. So I was that person. We were getting five to 10 requests of those almost a day at one point. So as Columbus was starting to change, which it's blowing up the last couple of years, we were getting these inspection requests. And now I would go to them, we either did an initial, which is a feasibility, basically we look at their scope of work and see if they were missing things, and then we'd do their draws. So I saw some people that were about my age, 24, 25, 26, that were murdering it, like absolutely making just money hand over fist. So then that made me go revisit the conversation that my uncle had. I was like, hey, tell me more about that investing in real estate idea that you had, but the only caveat that I'm going to require is we do it in Columbus, Ohio, where he's, he's from there though. So he knows the landscape. His mom's from there. he knows it. So he was like, okay, that's cool. Let's try it. And dove in after that. And I got good stories about the first deal we did together, the first and only deal we did, but that was kind of the aha moment of, wow, this is, I'm already in real estate, but there's, there's There's a million ways to make a million bucks and I'm just in one of those avenues right now. There is. I talk to people about this all the time. There's just so many paths you can go down. So was that first one just a regular flip then? Yeah. Yeah. We bought a 4 ,000 square foot house from, it was a foreclosure and over the next 18 months we flipped it and lost a hundred grand on that house. did you really? Yeah, we did. Yeah, it was bad. So we lost, we lost all that money. When I say we, it was mostly his money. I lived in the house. So I was, 23 years old. That my great idea was move out of my mom's basement into that house while we flipped it. Six bed, five bath, like giant house in a great area of downtown Columbus. listening and you know, Columbus, Bexley, Ohio, that was where it was at. And after that, you know, and during that same time period, so let's call it two years, every day I was still learning about real estate investing, whether it was through my inspection company that I was helping build. So I was working 60, 80 hours a week doing that business, growing it. because when we shut the doors on the property preservation, my dad was a one man show in the inspection side and he didn't market. basically, basically I had to find like eat what I could kill there. So I had to learn how to market, learn how to sell, learn how to do all that stuff on my own. And, and I started learning and learning and learning. And I was listening to bigger pockets and podcasts like this the entire time I was driving around from job to job. So I was learning, I was indulging. And I knew that this one was kind of going upside down towards the end. And I was like, you know what? This can't be the end of my investing career. I know this is possible because of all the podcasts I've listened to, but I'm clearly doing something wrong. can't do this again. that what eventually got you more towards the wholesaling side of the business was just having a flip go horribly wrong. You lost money and you know, cause wholesaling is a great way to mitigate that risk, right? You find a good deal, especially in the very beginning, when you're still building up your list of trades and everything else, you don't really have things down to a science yet. but you understood that other people are doing it. So if you could find the deal and hand it off to them, there's a lot of money to be made. Absolutely. And then it just kept coming up in these podcasts of like exactly what you said, low risk. If you're young and broke and like, that's a way out to, so I moved back into my parents' basement and I was like, okay, I'm going to try this wholesaling thing. So I started even during the time that I was flipping that first house, I still wanted to wholesale. I was still writing down addresses. I was driving for dollars cause I'm already driving through the neighborhoods, right? I should write down these addresses. Yeah. And I was handwriting letters. So I hand wrote tons and tons of letters and, yeah, just kind of went for it on that. And just at the same time, I ended up my next deal wasn't even a wholesale deal was a flip because I sent all my money out in postcards and it was supposed to be a wholesale deal that I couldn't sell. And I ended up flipping it made made about 50 grand, split it with a financial partner and bought a house hack. But in the meantime, started to continuously try to wholesale and grow that. know you've done like over 400 flips in wholesale deals to date, right? Yeah. What would the ratio be as far as ones that you actually flipped yourself? versus ones that you've wholesale docked to someone else? I would say we've wholesale probably a hundred more than we've flipped. So would say 150 flips, 250 plus wholesale deals. Okay. And are you, holding onto any of those like is long -term rentals or anything like that? Yeah. So we have about 85 units in our portfolio and that kind of, as we, so when I say we, ended up finding a business partner through one of those draw inspections. So he was buying a house through a hard money company. We were both kind of in the same spot. We both had done a deal or two. We were both all in on it and we just met each other at the perfect time. And he also had a background that I didn't have. had a sale. He had, he owned car lots from the time he was 19 to 23, ended up going bankrupt when he was 23. He's 34 now and was a finance manager. So he knew old school sales and that's what wholesaling is. And I had the construction background that I was learning and I had a great network. So the idea was Hey, let's wholesale. He'll drive the leads. Cause I was doing back then texting and that was when texting was like brand new leads were crazy. I didn't have the time as a home inspector because I was working so many hours and driving around to follow up properly with those. So when we met, we started talking and he's like, what are you doing for marketing? And I said, texting is like, let me see your, your, your, your CRM. And he looked at it he was like, dude, this is, this is it. This is amazing. I can guarantee I can get some deals out of this. You sell them. I get them. You sell them. Let's split it 50 50. So it just started out like that. And we just basically would get a wholesale deal closed. We would split the money, put the marketing on a credit card. And then about six months later, we, after we quote unquote dated for a little while, we're like, let's, let's do this together. Let's our goals align. Let's really go in all, all in on this. So as far as finding these deals, I know you said early on that you were handwriting letters and Probably mailing them and also just leaving them at the door. Is that what you were doing? Yeah, so we were just man. We were mailing them So I would I write down go to the auditor get their tax mailing address Write everything in write my return address and then put a stamp on it and throw it in the mail So are you still using that method today? No, no, we do 95 % cold calling so we and we can get as deep as you want and all this stuff if you'd like So do you have like a virtual assistant or a call center type setup? Okay. We've got six, six Egyptian cold callers. So they live in Egypt. They're plowing through lists, calling all day. Now, when I talk about my business and my structure, these, these people are hired through another company. they're, basically a subcontractor. I don't listen to their calls. I don't QC anything. They plow through lists and they shoot leads into my CRM. That's all that they do. And then once those leads are in your CRM, what happens? We have two full -time acquisitions team members. So we have two full -time sales guys that basically they wake up every day. They come to the office, they pull up our podio, which is our CRM, and they go to the new untouched leads. They work those, they call them. And then after that, they go to their tasks, which are basically old leads that they used to talk to that say, Hey, call me in a month. So two weeks later, we always say split it in half. So two weeks later, we're now following up with those people. Hey, Mrs. Barbara, this is Tommy. called you a month ago. are you still holding off on selling that property or, you're just basically building this funnel of follow -up and, it's, really old school sales, it works. Wow. So before you got it to that point, like now you have the cold collars and basically at the end of the day, you're just getting the lead that's already been massaged, right? And it's pretty much ready to go. So then you do a deal analysis on it to see. you know, Hey, what's, what's the potential here? And then you have a buyer's list of some sort that you send these out to. Is that how you're doing it? More or less. I guess like the exact process would be okay. We're talking to the seller and we're going through a sales process. One, are they actually motivated? Do they actually want to sell for a discount to somebody like us? So we, we then have to explain what our value prop is. Our value prop is, this can be as fast or as slow as you want. It's all cash. There's no realtor commissions. This is at your speed. And if we can determine a price, We can do whatever you want. You throw it on the market, it's not the same. figure when you're saying these things, what are they saying back to you that makes you feel like they would not want to go the traditional route, which is throw it on the market and get highest and best for your house. And we tell them that, Hey, if you're looking for absolute top dollar for your house, the market is going to 99 % be the, you're to get more money every time. If you tell that to them and they still talk to you, there's something that they're not telling you right away. One, cause you're a stranger. that you need to uncover. We call it uncovering some rocks. So what are they not telling us? And that's where we start to really work. And as far as an offer goes, we just be like, once we get, we know they're motivated, we'll be like, hey, take me through a virtual walkthrough of your house. When's the last time you updated your kitchen? What about the furnace? What about the foundation? And we're now kind of jotting down some notes and okay, if you're telling me what I believe is to be true, if you're, if you tell me the truth here, I can offer you a range of Boom to boom, depending on how much information they actually gave you. They were super detailed and you can write it down. You can actually make, a very reasonable offer. But if they're like, Hey, just make me an offer. Then you got to give them a big wide range. Hey, since you can't give me anything and give you 50 to 150. And they're like, well, I'll never take 50 from my house. And we're like, well, it sounds like you have a price in mind. So it's all about like sales and figuring on the backend. you do anything to protect yourself as far as like just. some type of title search or anything like that to see what you're actually getting yourself into. Not in the preliminary stages, you know, I mean, we, don't even really waste our time until it's in contract. So that's kind of our, our value prop to these people or the reason to get it in contracts. Okay. Here's the process we're to get in contract. We can do it over the phone docu sign, and then I'm to send it in my inspection company and they're going to take pictures. They're going to evaluate the house and they're going to send it back. And we're going to run our numbers. And if you didn't tell me some of these things that they're going to catch, we may have to revisit price. If not, we're probably good at this price. And then that's when you bought. the inspection company just took all the pictures for you. You have a report, you take them, and now you put them into an email for your cash buyers. And that's your marketing that you're going to be using for the property. So you nailed down a system that is extremely profitable and it works and it allows you to find these great deals, execute on them, and even hold some of them that you want to just go ahead and flip yourself. Right. so you have lots of exit opportunities. but for someone brand new, because like, this is something that I hear from people that want to get into real estate investing all the time is, you know, they need to raise some capital. They want to do a flip. or they want to buy a rental property or something like that, but they need to raise capital. And one way you could do that is through wholesaling, right? You don't have to have anything like you can start with absolutely nothing. So what would you recommend somebody that is interested in this that wants to give it a try? So if you want to do it and actually have some success with it, if you have 500 bucks, you can absolutely get started. So number one, get a prop stream account, $99 a month. Propstream, P -R -O -P -S -T -R -E -A That's gonna give you, we don't use it to comp, some people do. You can get 10 ,000 records, which are data points a month with that $99. 10 ,000 records, so you pull a free and clear equity, high equity list. Now you've got 10 ,000 houses that possibly have high equity. Because what we're looking for when we're wholesaling is is it the right person? Can they sell? And do they have the ability to sell at a discount? So I don't want to market to somebody that just bought their house at the top of the market last year. I want somebody that's owned it for 10 to 15 years or more, and they maybe let the house go a little bit, they don't have the finances to kind of fix it up, and a great option for them is a cash offer. So we're doing that at scale. In $99 a month, you can get those really right there from PropStream. Then we use Kind Skip Tracing, K -I -N -D. We get that for three cents a record for that 10 ,000. So you're spending $300 more for these people's phone numbers. Now you have 10 ,000 people's phone numbers and all you have to do is get a Google voice or if you want to use your own phone, start calling the people. That's it. So I said 500 that's 300 or 400 and you literally can get it. I mean, I can guarantee you can get a deal from that as long as you stick to it and you work that list like crazy. And I know each market is going to be different, but what are you seeing out there in Ohio is like on average, how much money you're making on every wholesale deal? I think our, so our 2023 average was right about 20 grand in assignment. I think we did right around 75 wholesale deals last year. I think this year it's a little bit less. I think we're sitting around right around 17, 18 grand per deal right now. Okay. I mean, that's still, that's, that's excellent. What about on the contract side? Like what are you using to lock down these properties? Yeah. So we have a one page and also by the way, if anybody's listening to this, if that's okay, they can shoot me a DM on Instagram. I'll give you all this stuff for free by the way. or just give you a little package if they want it they just send it out to them. we have a one page contract. It has 10 bullet points. You have the address, the parcel and like seven different things saying, we're not an agent. We're paying closing costs. very very easy to read things. not using a board of realtors contract. We're making the simplicity wins in this business because they already are a little bit worried because you're one you're a stranger calling them over the phone. Yeah and two you don't want to confuse somebody like what is the deal? I'm not a realtor. I'm not you're not paying commissions. are literally the one thing you need to really pinpoint is I'm paying cash. The only thing that comes out of your pocket are any liens mortgages encumbrances and property taxes. everything else we pay. we're eliminating any gray area when it comes to the money side. That's awesome. And I also know that you have put together a program too, for people to be a part of, The real side of real estate. let's, let's talk about that a little bit. What have you set up and, how do, how does someone join that group so that they can get, you know, more information and, just better prepare themselves to go tackle this? Yeah, so mean education is a big thing. I mean for anything right? So if you're if you're listening to this and you're like well wholesaling sounds great But I don't know anything about real estate right? You have to at least have somebody guide you and like learn and you can learn I mean everything I'm gonna tell you you can find on YouTube you can find it on bigger pockets you but you got to sift through hours and hours and hours to find the right stuff so we basically have bundled it up and Give it you on with a bow and a ribbon right so to hey you do this then you do this and we hand hold you through the whole thing and It's a community of real estate investors. We have about 250 people in there right now. is, September 13th from across the country and a lot, and all of these principles apply to anywhere in the United States. Other than there's a couple of States right now that wholesaling is beginning to get a little bit gray, but the idea of lead generation and putting a house in contract will never go away. The exit strategy, like a double close or something may come more into play. So you may need to raise a little bit of capital, but we also, We help people with transactional funding within our community as well. So yeah, if you're just trying to learn the ropes and there's a lot of programs out there and I'm not going to talk bad about any of them, but a lot of people are teaching old stuff. So they did really well five, 10 years ago and now they don't do it actively. I mean, we're doing 15, 20 plus deals a month in this market and having success. We're giving you guys real time feedback on how to actually run the business. You know, I think one of the, probably the hardest hurdle to get over is just, and he kind of hit on it before, but just building that trust with the person that you're talking to on the other line, because there's so many scams out there, right? Like who hasn't got a, I mean, I literally got a text message today from someone that says, Hey, Shirley, are we still meeting at five? And it's like, you know, this is someone's I'm going to say, no, this you got the wrong number. And then they're going to go, I'm sorry. What's your name? And it's just like, Everyone's has a scam. It's like they have scam farms set up all over the world. so how do you get over that? Where the people actually that you're talking to actually trust you. It's all about having one confidence and competence, right? So if you are on the other line, and this is how I got my first couple of real estate deals, like I didn't really know about investing that well, but I knew about houses. So I started to be an inspector and I would walk into a house. The first deal I ever, or the second deal, the one that was first, that was profitable. He had talked to other people, but he, the reason he went with me is because I pointed out a few things in the basement, like cracks and movement that nobody else had said. So then he trusted me. So once you can talk with confidence and have the lingo and some of the things that you need to talk about down, then you're going to get confidence within that. Then you do a couple of deals and then starts to get more with money comes confidence too. then you, you kind of lower that. You're always gonna have that imposter syndrome, especially in the beginning. So everyone does doesn't matter what you do and how long you've been doing Yes, so you got to just understand that that's gonna be a thing and you just got to plow through it and lean on the right people Yeah, and that's what's great about the community that you have set up because it doesn't cost you a fortune to belong to it is very affordable and You guys are just there to support each other tips and tricks I think that's awesome. So I'm definitely, you know, going to post links to that as a part of this podcast. another thing though, I would like to just kind of just tackle just for the people that are listening that really are just trying to, you know, get this, the basic concept of what wholesaling actually is and you know, what it takes to actually lock down a deal. Is there any money involved just to lock down that contract? No, so you're not transferring any money at all. The only money you're gonna spend, even if it's not actual money, it's your time. So your time has some value too, which people don't really think about. But in the beginning, when I was starting to wholesale, was making $32 ,000 a year working for my dad. So my time was not that valuable. So everything's a price, a time and money lever. If you have all the time in the world and you have no money, spend that time doing this. So if you're locking up a contract, we never bring up the idea of an earnest money deposit because that's a term that is in real estate that only real estate people know. So if you bring it up, they're gonna be like, well, what's that? And they're gonna ask people about it. 95 % of our contracts with sellers have zero EMD, no money locking it down. It's just a 30 day boilerplate contract that's actually a legally binding contract. And the concept of wholesaling is this. So I reach out to a seller. Let's say I walk down the street in my neighborhood, the house is beat up. I go knock on the door and I say, Hey, my name's Tom. I live in your neighborhood. I'm a, actually a local real estate investor. Would you be open to a cash offer on this house? And they're like, well, what's your offer? And you start talking about, Hey, can I walk through and I can maybe, so you finally figure out a price. So to this point, you just got to figure out. What's it gonna be worth when it's done now? You're walking the house figuring out what the rehab is gonna be and you're working backwards to figure out if you got some so let's say I put that house in contract for a hundred grand and It's worth 300 fixed up. This house is beat up though. It's it's completely destroyed It needs a hundred grand of work. I then put in contract for a hundred I'm then gonna get take all my pictures and market it to cash buyers in my area for a hundred and twenty now I may get a hundred twenty. I may get a hundred twenty five. I may also get 105 So whatever I can work that property up and get I then assign that contract so the purchase then Instead of my name on it It then assigns to this end buyer and then I'm just a line item on that settlement statement when it closes So it'll say assignment fee to Tommy horror of five ten twenty five grand I walk away at closing with my cash and I never own the house and do you have like certain title companies that you work with then? Absolutely, and they're familiar with this process Yeah. Not everyone will, you know, so it's being able to vet title companies. Well, we use in Columbus and there are also, think it's six or eight States now, Empora, EMPRA. They only work with investors and they, they, literally built this platform for this reason pretty much. you just gotta find those people in your market of, and it's only, it's a few questions. Hey, do you do assignments? If they say no, then go call an expert. Yeah. Yeah. So when you lock a property down, There's a date, right? Is there, is the closing date specified from the very beginning? Yes and no. So we, we realized that now, so you gotta always remember you're dealing with somebody's problem. Yes. And typically nobody's giving you a property that's in great shape and you can get into right away or it's tenant occupied. So all of our contracts boilerplate are 30 days out, but our 30 days in our contract specifies that it does not start time wise until we get into that property the first time. Cause sometimes They might not get you into the house for two weeks and that contracts ticking away So the first time you get in is 14 days now you have 14 days to sell the property and that's you're just shrinking your timelines because when you're wholesaling That everything works off the front contract and I'm now fulfilling the expectation that I agreed with with this seller Hey, we're gonna do all of these things give you this price and the end buyer is now fulfilling that so you got a bit in the closer you get on timelines The quicker somebody has to close the less money they're gonna give you for that house That's, that's beautiful. You know, I think this really is probably one of the easiest ways to get started in real estate. You know, a lot of people are looking for that, that start, like where do I start? And so this is a great way for you to not only make some money while you're doing it, but also network with like the people that you're going to be wholesaling this to you have an opportunity to even shadow them in some cases and learn the flipping side. And, and build, you know, build for, and that's the best thing about this. think, you have multiple options here as you start doing this and you generate more income, you could start actually holding onto properties, but you know, building long-term wealth. So I will definitely give links and everything else to your program to where's the best way, people can just like follow you. it, Instagram is probably the best one. Tommy hard zero five. That's where I spend most of my time and effort. Okay. Honestly, like I'm not here to pitch anything or sell like if you just have questions just DM me and as long as it's a thought out question that I didn't post something about on my Instagram or my YouTube for free that you can take 20 minutes to go look up and figure out like, my name is this I'm in this scenario. Little piece of advice. I'll send you a voice message back of what I think now is it maybe the best answer always, but I'm to give you what I think is going to help you and That's that's what I'm here for. That's awesome. You're a real dude, man. And I appreciate that. I know our listeners will too, because I know I have a lot of people that are interested in getting in this game and they just don't know where to start. So I definitely think you could help them out. And I appreciate that. Before I let you go, I just want to know, cause everyone has this, this story or, or something to say on this. If you could start over again, right? With this wholesaling business, what would you have done differently? so I, I call it quote unquote half assed wholesale for two or three years in the beginning. Everything in wholesaling is about consistency. If you think you're going to wholesale and spend one or two hours, even a day or a week, you're never going to get anywhere. You're to be spinning your wheels. It's all about taking action every single day. When you have the time, if you're working a job and we're talking about replacing your income. So you have to go to work, you have to do this, but every waking moment that you're not working that job that you might hate, if you're listening to this, you on your lunch break, need to be calling sellers on your way into work. You need to be calling sellers on my home. You need to be calling sellers on the, on your weekends. You need to be working on your CRM. You need be downloading lists. You need to be driving for dollars. You need to be doing these things every single day because what I see people do is they start, they listen to a podcast like this. They get super motivated. They hit it hard. And then two weeks later, they stop and they fizzle out. And it's like, you have to be consistent. And you have to trust the process. That's something that I didn't realize in real estate was something that you're implementing today. You're not going to see results for that typically for 90 days almost. So you have to believe what you're doing today is the right thing for the reward in the future. Excellent advice, man. I do appreciate you. You being here today and spitting all that, that wisdom to us, for everyone else that's listening, you got to check him out. I am going to give, Links to his Instagram, the real side REI community. Go check them out. This is good stuff. I appreciate you, man. To my audience, everyone else, God bless. Stay hustling. Until next time, peace out. Let's go. Appreciate it.