Own the Business & the Building | Daniela Devine E35

Most investors stop at residential. The real leverage begins when you own the business AND the building.

In Episode 35, Keith sits down with commercial real estate broker and investor Daniela Devine to break down the shift from residential into commercial and why business owners renting their space may be missing one of the biggest wealth moves available.

They discuss how commercial property is valued differently, why long-term leases matter, how owning your building expands your financing options, and what it actually takes to make your first commercial move.

If you’re a residential investor thinking about your next level, or a business owner still leasing your space, this conversation will challenge how you think about ownership.

Connect with Daniela:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedanielladevine

Connect with Keith:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamkeithandrews
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iamkeithandrews
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@iamkeithandrews

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Transcript

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If I wanted a laundromat, I'd do one of two things. I'd find the smart guy that bought the building that has the apartment on top and the laundromat on the bottom, or I'd buy the strip mall. I'd buy the damn strip mall. And it's because I'm house hacking the crap out of that strip mall. Gain is the strip mall. The active coin is the laundromat. you All right, Daniela, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here and to wrap all about real estate and business. I can't wait to dive into this because as you know, I'm the residential guy. I built my portfolio on single family homes and like some say I hit a home run, but commercial real estate is a completely different animal that I've kind of been afraid of. And I know there's more stability there if you do it right. And I also know that if you have a business and you own the real estate your business is operating in, it's kind of like, it's the Holy grail. So I really am excited to get into this, but let's start with you. Tell me about your story, how you even got into real estate and commercial and give me the whole rundown. All right, let's do it. So. ah I'm born and raised in the Bay Area and I live in Pacifica, California, tiny little coastal town on the Pacific coast. And I'm a mom of three little ones. So I've got a one and a half year old, a six year old and a seven year old. And a couple of years ago, I mean, I grew up as a third gen entrepreneur. So my family has been in flooring in San Francisco since the 1960s. It is sounds cool when you say it like that. But the reality is, like grandma and dad worked in dusty, nasty warehouses my entire life. like that's what I carpet. Like that's not sexy, right? And so I knew how to do big girl stuff. had big fancy job titles. I was the first in my family to graduate from college or to go to college and get a master's degree. That's all my dad wanted for me, never to work in the warehouse. But I graduated in 2008. And all of those jobs were not there, Keith. They were not there. And so my grandma was getting ready to retire after founding the company. And my dad's like, I got a job. I'm like, cool. Okay, let's go do this. And at that time, tech was booming in San Francisco. So I actually at the time joined a real estate mentorship and like totally bought into one of those overpriced things. But what I learned was how to do creative finance. And I started a nationwide transaction management company where I transacted over 300 creative subject to seller finance lease option, you name it in all 50 states, legally with attorneys, attorney teams. And I learned how to leverage, how to leverage real estate creatively. And that was when I got into residential. and I got into residential and I lost my butt. I lost 70 grand on a townhome, a literal townhome. was- Where was it? Bend, in Bend. Oregon? Yes, yes, and this is why. Did you know anyone in Bend or you just- No. It was good price. I like made, this was it. So I was a part of this creative community, right? And I got this deal. was a subject to, so means you take rights, a subject to the existing mortgage. was a real estate agent that owned it. He was sick of managing it. I now know why. um And it was brand new, beautifully designed. I think it went for like 600 grand in a really nice area of Bend at a 3 % rate when rates were eight. So I was like, cool, how can this be a loss? I was being a girl. Yeah, I can't afford 200 grand out of pocket to buy something like that. No way. And plus, I was able to walk in with 8 % down. And so it was a total creative structure. I was stoked. I was like, okay, I have to midterm rent this thing. It can't be short term rented because of the CC and R is like, and like, oh, poor me, I'll have to go to bed, like it'll be empty and I'll have to go to bed. Wham, right? What does it come up until it wasn't? So That thing, even at 3%, was like around a $3,200 a month mortgage. And you had to have to pay for all the utilities, right? Cause it's midterm. Got to keep everything on. And I was coming out of pocket after everything, probably closer to like four grand a month. And I couldn't rent it to save my life. And I find out that Nextdoor is a sober living facility. for juvenile delinquents that just got out of jail. So I call the realtor back and I go, so this is the thing. I've got the leverage here because mortgage is still in your name and you left out a material fact. Should have told me about that house. So what's gonna happen is I'm gonna pay the mortgage one more time. You're gonna get a letter from my attorney. I'm gonna deed and lieu it back to you. We're gonna wash our hands, we're gonna walk away. Call it even. And he said, thank you so much for your professionalism. And that is when I was done with residential. I'm like, okay, if I'm get into a place where I could lose that much money, it better be for the gain of a lifetime. It better be because of a multifamily situation where the interest rates jumped on a variable. It's gotta be something worth more than what I did. So it was wild, but... it led me directly into what you've kind of clearly done is I became a commercial broker. Cause I was like, okay, no more residential, but I don't understand commercial. So how do I hedge against that risk? Cause God forbid I ever make another stupid mistake like I did before. um And I got really deep into just like market analysis. Cause commercial is all about data, right? And it's all out there. All of the big firms. They publish quarterly reports on every single sub market, every single asset class. So you can see how per square foot prices are increasing. What's happening? What's coming? What's going? And I became married to it. You know, like I completely walked away from all the creative crap, walked away from my TC company, exited that successfully. um And I realized something super important. Everybody wants what you're doing right now, everybody. I've got my 10 to 20 homes, whatever, let's call it 20 million net worth. I'm making enough on cashflow to survive. I don't have to work even though you're working all the time. It is different. Everybody wants that part, but you know better than anybody, the road from here to here, even in a crazy great buying market is like this. So for me, know, going into commercial, it just felt like I really have to know what I'm doing here. I have to be able to represent other people and figure out what other investors are looking for, what makes a great deal for them, what doesn't make a great deal for them, different classes. um And what I really realized was I needed an active income machine. There was never going to be one commercial. I mean, this happens. Don't get me wrong. But there was never going to be one commercial property that was going to make or break my life. It's a process. It's just like houses. know, commercial, if you're working as a, as a commercial investor, you are turning your, you're trading your paper and your properties every five to seven years. Right. You buy burp, you burp it, you buy, but you don't increase the rents, increase the value. Yeah. Yes. You get in there. You stabilize the tenants. So once you get in there and you do the work, you can retrade it, right? You capture That new value. Yeah, you cap. And that new value is like 500 grand, 700 grand, a million, 3 million. Like you start to play with bigger numbers so that all of a sudden you went from buying a strip mall that's 1.5 million with four tenants to buying something for 12 where you've got a grocery anchor, you know? Same thing with multifamily, right? You go from like an Aplex to freaking 24 units. You can do this across any asset class in commercial because commercial property value is not in your ability to come in with money. It's in the tenant, the tenant that you bring or the tenant that it has. So, I mean, we'll get there, but in like my little end cap to that is like, when you own a business that's producing all that active cash that you have to depreciate or you're gonna pay Uncle Sam a leg and a liver, you can buy a building and go to the bank and go, here's my 10 year committed lease. I'm bringing a tenant in tow. But in this case, you're saying you are the tenant? Yeah, because I own a business. So if I got to a point with one of my, I'm talking about one business specifically that I'm still leasing with, and this goes into so many other things, like I've got private money on this. I know I'm going to have to refi out of my situation. When you own a business without real estate, you are super limited to your loan product. It's SBA or it's private capital, right? Unless you buy the freaking facility. Then your loan products go like this. and you have options because the bank goes, ooh, you have a hard asset we can take from you if everything goes south. So if it's an established business, which is really what I've gotten into is buying businesses from boomers. That's what I do. um I'm looking at an established, like the bank is not going, oh, this is a startup. There's no stability here. I'm like, no, no, no. This has been in this sub market for 40 years. I can pull 40 years of consistent tax returns. This isn't just me. saying I'm a special tenant. No, this is a real tenant and a obligation from this business that's performed historically for 40 plus years to pay your mortgage. If I sell the business, doesn't matter. The business is still leasing my building. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's the McDonald's approach, honestly, right? For sure. Yeah. So real quick, I just have a question. So Are you finding the business first and then finding the real estate you could put that business in? Is that? Great question. Typically when I look at businesses now, I try to find something with real estate. try. And this is where it kind of nuanced, right? Cause I mean, we all want something technologically that's technologically is probably not the right word, but that's like technically palatable. And this is what I mean. If you've never been an electrician, it would be tough for you to go buy an electrical company. And I think that this is something that all those influencers gloss over because one, they got lucky. Maybe they found a good operating partner in the field. Like they thought about the structure different. They did this for a reason. You know, for me to step into an electrical company and QC work, drill down on the margin. Make sure the men's production hour were acceptable hours and they weren't leeching on the job or whatever it is. Like, it'd be super hard. don't know, Jack, you know what about fricking electrical, right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's why Cody Sanchez and her boring businesses are so much sexier because you can go buy a self storage facility. You'll be fine. I could go buy a laundromat tomorrow. I'll be fine. Car wash. You can find a car wash technician in the area that's good. You'll be solid. Right. And the people that you put into those businesses to help you run them, it's, it's not, um, a high education position. Right. Like if you had to show up and sit at the desk, you could, no problem. But so could most people. Um, but yeah, I mean, if I wanted a laundromat, I, I do one of two things. I'd find the smart guy that bought the building that has the apartment on top and the laundromat on the bottom, or I'd buy the strip mall. I'd buy the damn strip mall. And it's because I'm house hacking the crap out of that strip mall. Gain is the strip mall. The active coin is the laundromat. Right? So for whatever reason, parking, need to regrade, security, need new cameras, HVAC, and for one of my tenants has to be replaced. I take it out of the laundromat money. I don't take it out of my money. Right? And so that's sort of It took me getting getting literally co-hopper to figure out I'm trying to be somebody that I'm not. I'm not Pace Morby. I don't own 8000 units. So I have to play different and I have to securitize myself differently. So really it's about finding that business that solid business. that's already housed in real estate, that's a good deal versus somebody that's just like, hey, I want to buy a strip mall, but you're just buying it with whatever tenants are in there. And then you're having to put in new tenants, make renovations, whatever you're, you're targeting the business first, right? That's in the right building. I'm looking at the businesses first and foremost, because it's the same thing as real estate, right? Like when you start underwriting real estate, is it going to work? If the business isn't profitable, right? Like if the structure's not there, if it's not a stabilized business, nothing matters. Cause then I've got two problems. I've got this business is a huge problem and I've got, Ooh, my strip mall is not really stabilized because I have one tenant. That's me. That's not stabilized. That's risky. Right? And so it takes a while. it's just like you said, you know, with you been doing how many years were you How many years were you really into real estate before you started to be able to napkin underwrite with confidence? About three or four years. Okay. Same thing with businesses, right? Where it's like, I can go in and especially now because I've bought a few and I've bought stabilized, I've bought the fix and flip business, which has been a nightmare, but it has the most gain. Like I've done a couple different things now. So now I can kind of go in and look. And when you see me analyze a biz by cell, business listing by a broker or any other of the websites, I sound so negative. I'm like, yeah, sure. Like I've already done all these things because I'm like, bro, like let's talk about it. Cause I can guarantee you 70 % of the things you just said are literally not true, which you wouldn't know business broker cause you never operated a business. So it's the same thing as what you're doing right now. Well, that's the same thing. Like I had this conversation the other day. Even in the residential side, there are far more realtors out here than homes for sale for one. Two, half the realtors don't even own the house they live in. And I'd say the majority of them have never owned a rental property. A license doesn't mean anything. means you have way more rules that you have to follow. That's what it means. It means you have to stay within compliance. That's what it means. Um, and, those rules exist for a reason. I'm not against them by any means. I'm all for doing things. Compliantly with integrity and honesty and all that jazz. But when I get in front of a realtor or a commercial broker, that's hard selling. That is never owned an asset or had to manage that asset. All respect is out the door. I'm just like, no, and I have to find a really gentle way sometimes of telling my clients that I can relate to you. I can relate to you on both fronts. can relate to you as an asset manager. I can relate to you as a business owner. And like that, I think that's like the gray area. the hardest part for me is sometimes knowing, you when you're an investor, you're trying to poke so many holes in it, right? Cause you're trying to lower your risk, or rather you're trying to feel good about your risk tolerance. And you know what you know, nobody can take it away from you. But for me, Sometimes I listen to what my investors want and I know that the fear, which I'm very familiar with, is holding them back. And so I get to a point sometimes as a commercial broker where I go, hey, you asked me for A, B, C, and D. I brought it to you. Now it's your job to perform or I just wasted the last seven months of time with you. So there's like this gray part of going, I know how you feel, truly. And if you work with me, I expect you to know what you want because I'm not here to go shop. Like this isn't funsies. Like let's go to the mall and hang out. Like I'm here to like my time is worth something. And that's where it gets tough because you have to sort of face the feelings you already feel yourself about everything you buy and everything you do. um But yeah, I work, I work with a couple people in commercial real estate. It's not a couple industry wide like Brokers are kind of known for being awful and, um, not that many of them have experience owning. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say hardly any of them do. And that's where they're honestly the folks that do, they make the move. They stop listing, they stop listing and they make the move into asset management because it's not that it's easier. It's just different. It's different. Well, Let's go back a little bit because your family business. Yes. I want to know that now did you said that they own this flooring business since the 1960s, right? Did they own the building? Well, God, this is so good. So, um, my family in the sixties, right? Think of like grandpa's like an Egyptian immigrant. Okay. Super smart guy, but like hustler. Grandma is the eldest of, I think, 10 from Mississippi. And so they met in San Francisco and my grandfather was always trying different businesses. As you can imagine, most immigrants go through this, right? And um they figured out the flooring thing. They figured out that this was a thing that people needed that wasn't gonna change too quickly. Cause he invested in laundromats early on, right before a massive change and lost everything. And so a massive change in the technology of the machines. so um flooring worked and they made no money for a very long time and they were always at risk of losing their lease. So as this sort of iterated into the business that my grandma and my dad really ran together from 1981 on after my grandfather and grandmother split, um this remained to be true. And I'll tell you why. I didn't know this until I went to go work for other businesses and I did some fractional COO work because I was always just like, God, why is this business so hard? Like, why? And it's because when you work in a silo, you don't know what any of your competitors are doing. You don't know how to progress. You don't know how to grow. You don't know what you should push on. Like, executive coaches weren't a thing back then, you know? They sold mentorships for sales. That's what they did. And sometimes those worked and sometimes they didn't. And so they spun their wheels for a very long time. And they just sort of agreed that we don't really have this business to scale and make it rich. We have this business because it's our job, our way. And they were comfortable with that. My dad did not want to manage people so he never could grow. And so it was this limiting self-limiting thing. And because of that, they could never get ahead enough to buy a building. So I kind of grew up knowing like I could hear my dad. My dad was very open about finances and money, uh whether that was an advantage or a disadvantage, I don't know. But I grew up with a lot of stress for him because he was always at risk of being booted. Always. Like it was like, if we get booted, it's not like a shoe store. It's like we've got 50 rolls of rigging carpet in here, right? right before the recession started, my grandmother, she's like in her 80s at this point. I was just about to replace her. And she's looking through the San Francisco Chronicle every day. And she finds a listing for an auction for a building that City College was auctioning off. And she goes, I mean, they had been looking for a building for years. And their financial person was like, Can't do it, dude. You can't afford it. So my dad showed up to this auction and he was the only one there. And he got a 16,000 foot flex industrial facility in a good part of San Francisco for like two mil. And now it's worth seven. So he spent the next seven years after moving to that facility, working. his you know what off so fearful that like God forbid anything happened because he had a big bar on steel to get into that Keith. Yeah, I bet. Everything they leverage everything the money in the freezer under the freaking mattress every dollar of equity they had like they borrowed money from people like anything they could. So my then then the recession hit literally a year later. So he was just so afraid. He was so afraid that he was gonna lose it and and everybody was gonna suffer that outcome that he worked straight for seven years and paid off the entire building. So when I bought the business from him, I leased from him, from my family's I know I have least security, but me, Daniela Devine, is not benefiting off the ownership of that building. So knowing what I know now, when I do a bolt-on to this business and I go buy another flooring business, I'm going to buy it with real estate. Whether I have to find it separately from the business owner or not, because now I understand that loan products are going to be so much more advantageous for me if I purchase with a building. Like my business, my dad and his sacrifice, which he deserves, is benefiting off of the lease and the lease structure with the business, which I'm also his broker. So it's like, I'm, I'm like, I made sure the lease was good for me, but I also made sure the lease protected him. Right. Cause if I sell the business and it's somebody else, I got to make sure it's tight and right. And so for both sides. So, um, yeah, it's sort of a trip, how that all, how that all happened, but he eventually did. And when he bought that building, it completely changed his ability to scale and serve his sub market. He anchored his business in the sub market. mean, 16,000 square foot facility is not small change for inside the city of San Francisco. so he was able to do so many things because he got that building. he subleasing any parts of it or is it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And now like I, I absorbed about 10,000 square feet, but even now, like I'm reevaluating my business and going, I don't really need all this space. Like I might be subleasing a couple of thousand square feet too, because Like this, it's this right here. This piece is the flexibility play. I can house hack my way into that. I know I'm going to inherit, hopefully, you know. But even if I didn't, even if I didn't, being a commercial broker and understanding leasing, I made sure I had that caveat. I'm going to nail myself to 10,000 square feet. But the better play. If this wasn't my family's business, would it have been to do that? Buy the business with the real estate? If you find a killer business and it doesn't have real estate, it's okay. Just do your best to find something to affix it to. Because I accuse you not. To the bank, the power of that stabilized tenant, whether it's you or somebody else, is literally your ticket to an approval. That's all they want. Let's talk about that because on the commercial side of thing, if we are doing going with the traditional bank, you are, unless you're going through the SBA or something like that, you're putting 25 % down, right? You're putting a chunk. So this is my way around this. I really, you know, this is why like this kind of transaction is multi-pronged. It takes like, if I found a business today that I wanted to buy, I'd bake in a year and a half. I'd bake in a year and a half to get everything in a row, like everything, right? From people change management, loans, raising private capital. So there's a couple of influencers out there that talk about buying businesses and oh, you just find an equity investor and it's so great and they bring your down payment. And at first I thought that that was total baloney. I was like, okay, like who am gonna find just roll up and do this, right? until I owned a couple businesses and I started spending a significant more time with people that also owned high level businesses, not through mentorship, through some executive, like I found the executive coach for me, like the guy that manages people like me, that has direct lines and connections to private equity, to private investors, because I knew like one, you're gonna help me get where I need to go and understand my options. Like that's what I needed. I needed access to options. And so after working with this person for a couple of months, they don't do the work for me by any means. It's kind of like, Hey, we'll tee you up. And you know, that person over there might go figure it out. Right. But what I now know is that it is worth giving away 10, 15%, 20 % of your business to have an experienced partner with money to move come in. This partner doesn't have to have voting rights. This partner doesn't have to be an active part of the business. You can very granularly in your operating agreement or in your shareholder agreement, define their obligation. Five hours a week of consulting, whatever it is. This person, trust me when I say, you will benefit from this person. CFO, fractional CFOs do this all day long, right? um HR, change management executives that understand what it's like to have to transition a business. people in private equity that know the red flags that you are not gonna know until you deal with them yourself. So to me, it's worth the time and the building the bricks to find that person that can do this with you. And yes, another way to do it, and this is not available to everybody, but I was able to scratch my way into an SBA loan like this. I took all of my sleepy 401ks and retirement money. And this was, I was like, I was in a bar, I was so scared doing this. I was like, Oh my God, this is crazy. Cause I also got lucky and picked a bunch of Nvidia stock and I was like, there you go. But what I did, I rolled like, I didn't have that much retirement money guys. I'm not this like person that worked for tech and has like three to 400 grand in my retirement. Okay. But I rolled it into a product called a solo K. I did this with a company called Directed. I researched a bunch of companies. I really love this company. One of the partners is Matt Sorensen. I think he's a tax attorney. Incredibly intelligent gentleman, but the service is what I really like. What this allowed me to do, essentially, you can roll all your stuff together into a solo-k product, and you can do all the same things. You can go and buy your Nvidia. You can buy your mutual funds. You can do that. You can do crypto. You can lend money to other real estate investors, to other business investors, to funds. You want to invest in your friends, your friends RV park fund. Cool. That's how you move that money. Right. um And you're earning the returns. You are earning returns the same way your retirement account normally typically grows. Yeah. With a caveat, with a caveat, you can borrow. 50 % of the total balance of this account and take it out for whatever the hell you want. And that is how I got my SBA down payment. So my down payment, I'm paying 9 % on it, which like gross, right? But also it's not back into my retirement account. Yeah, because with the with the traditional uh 401k, I know it's capped off at $50,000. Like that's the most you can borrow. Unless unless you're withdrawing for like there are some rules that allow you to buy it for use it for a house or something like that. And there's hardship withdrawals and different things like that. But I know from the loan side, it's $50,000. But in this solo K, it's just 50 % of whatever the balance is. But you know, what's great about this is there's a lot of people that have these type of accounts. uh Self directed IRAs all kinds of different things that are out there that invest that are looking for good investments. So I always tell people finding the money is easy like they they can contact you and you guys can talk it through like here here's some avenues you could possibly go to to find some money. The key is finding the deal always right you have the deal the money will always come just find a good deal find the good business. that's in this building and have it all mapped out, you do that, you don't have to worry about the money. The money's gonna come to you. And like everything else, right? It feels so impossible. Like, my God, I have to have all the stars aligned and Jupiter going to Mars and a rainbow farts everywhere. And it's like, I get it. It does sound like that. But this is like any other large complex thing you've ever approached in your life. You literally accomplish it bite by bite. And where people get it twisted is they, become inconsistent. They become inconsistent at looking at calling brokers at underwriting deals. uh They, you know, don't put as much importance on working the network and showing up, getting on podcasts, right, getting out there and talking about what they want to do, getting in front of people, getting in rooms of people that have already done it. All of this is exhausting. It's not easy. I mean, I did all of this during a pandemic. Pregnant with my third, like after a C-section, on the phone, like, you know, I made a lot of freaking sacrifices to do this. I kind of have this shtick on TikTok where it's like, buy a business from a boomer. I think you can too, right? And I do, I legit do. I think anybody can roll up to their uncle's old HVAC company, walk down the street to the laundromat they've been going to for 30 years. Anybody can do this, but not everybody. has that kind of energy, fortitude or resilience to get through it. And that is the part that I like. Let's talk about real quick as we wind down, where are you investing right now? I own a car wash, the Landon business in Arizona. So I'd love more car washes in Arizona. I've been able to figure out that model. I'd buy car washes anywhere in the mountain west, honestly, somewhere that's not more than an hour or two flight away. um I self the self service car washes or where there's actually employees. Okay. Yep. Self serve car wash. do have a car wash like I guess you could call him technician. And I just got really lucky on this one. I actually found it through another commercial broker friend. He previously owned 25 car washes in the market and sold his entire portfolio. And he's just an older man that just wants to fart around car wash. So that's the guy that helps me. And it's a great deal for him. It's a great deal for me. um won't always find that unicorn, but I now know what it takes. And so I'm like, I like car washes. I don't like car washes. Those are a lot of parts, lot of expense. Um, and you're talking about just the drive, just the ones that there's like maybe like several days that you just drive in and you spray down your car and then you have a vacuum machine. it. And so the cool part about those, like the one I found was on a hard corner on the main drag in a dusty old town. And knowing what I know as a commercial retail broker, I can knock it down and I can ground lease that corner out. So I've got a contingency plan for if the car wash were a nightmare and I hate car washes all of a sudden, I wouldn't just sell it, right? Like I would try and make it do something else. I'm looking for more flooring companies in the Bay area. So flooring, flooring, cleaning vertical to flooring, epoxy, polished concrete, something that does something different than we do. But I think that's big is epoxy right now. Yeah. And it's in my market. You know, it's like I know flooring. grew up in flooring. I freaking understand the trade. Like that's an easy one for me. And I do most of my retail development commercial broker work in Idaho. And I know the Idaho market better than any market. And so if I win, I buy again, which will probably be late this year. I'm going to be looking at strip malls in Idaho. I'm to be looking at pad sites that I know I can ground lease. with a tenant in tow because that's what I do. I work with, know, burger users and gas stations and all, you know, all of those places that exist in strip malls, whether they're local or national tenants. um And I mean, I've always dreamt of self storage, but it trades so high. Not That seems like it's just a fad to me. I mean, it's like everyone was so hyped about it. Um, they'll tell them that they have everything is trading for like a million over its worth. And now I've realized as a broker that it's actually now what, um, people go and park their 10 31 money in. Cause the only way they cash flow is if you come in with enough equity down. So if it's trading for over a million dollars, let's say it's really worth 1.2 with its income, but it's going to trade for 2.2 because of how high in demand it is. Unless you come in with 10 31 cash. Yeah. Yeah. Makes oh sense. It's one of those things you do when you have that killer killing of a gain, a million dollar gain, and then you go buy a $2.5 million self storage facility for 500. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a will, there's a way. But that's sort of what I'm looking to Well, you're tying up a lot of money, though. That's right. You're not gonna you're not gonna be able to get it out because how are you gonna really increase the value there? It's right. So the boring commercial stuff is incremental value sometimes. Right. And so unless you buy something with surplus land, increased value like that, put more storage units on it, unless you know that it's the one guy in the market that's 50 % below in cost, raise the rent. There's always so many things you can do here, which is why commercial feels scary. But once you understand that there's like three or four ways to do it, regardless of the asset class, you start to go, Oh, yeah. Awesome. Well, Hey, I really did enjoy talking to you and I've learned a lot. How can people find you like plug yourself? Yeah. Yeah. So find me on Instagram at the Daniela divine or find me on Tik TOK the Daniela divine. I do 15 minute free consults if you have a burning question that you need some advice on. I do one-to-one consults. I'm gonna have a static product, just general business buying for newbies coming out kind of soon here. Nothing crazy, I'm not building a community. And yeah, I do answer my DMs, so hit me Okay, okay, well you heard that. Danielle, thank you so much for breaking down everything in a practical way. Everyone out there, if you've got value from this episode, share it with another business owner or investor who needs to hear it. And always, we will see you on the next one. Everyone out there, God bless. oh